Bring It On!

By Jersey McJones on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Yeah right, Craig.  “Toal meltdown,” huh?

Michael Savage.

Rush Limbaugh.

Ann Coulter.

And that’s just three.  Hypocrit.

JMJ

By Paul Watson The Cranky Brit on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Jersey,

Given how savagely those commentators moronic or vicious statements are treated here, it’s hardly hypocritical for Craig to point out when a liberal commentator makes a similar vicious comment.

Besides, everyone know Cheney has no heart. ;-) 

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Jersey,

These people that you mention melted down a long time ago. I don’t listen to them, read them or care about anything they say or do. You keep throwing around the hypocrite word. How is it hypocritical for me to point out that the HuffPo is praying for Cheney’s demise unless I routinely point to Rush Limbaugh as one of my guiding lights? Do you even have any conception of what conditions are necessary for a charge of hypocrisy to stick or is it the walking pneumonia talking? Has you fever spiked to, say 105 degrees Fahrenheit? That would explain a lot. 

By Jersey McJones on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Oh, big deal.  The writer is a nobody.  Those people I mentioned are among the top 10 radio hosts in America.  Meanwhile, John Bolton said the UN should be bombed.  These people have a real bully pulpit and huge audiences.

THAT’s what I found most hypocritical.

Frankly, I don’t care about any of it, and, if you look at my writings, you’ll find I never bothered to mention any of this, until now.  It’s TALK.  It means NOTHING.  And, in America, we should be FREE to engage in it.  But it crosses the line when sleazy scumbags like Laura “Yet Another Rightwing Talk Slut” Ingraham has callers flooding election monitoring lines to avert repoting on illegal activities at the polls.  It crosses the line when EVERY FUCKIN ONE OF THE RIGHT WING TALK CIRCUIT CABAL LIE AND LIE AND LIE AND LIE in perpetuity about REAL FACTS every day.  It crosses the line when Fox “News” shows Mark Foley as a DEMOCRAT on the tag line 3 TIMES during an O’Lielly TV episode.

And that too is where I find hypocrisy.

Don’t tell me what is or isn’t hypcritical.  I can spot it from miles.

JMJ

By Jersey McJones on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Oh, and Craig, look at what you just did.  You made fun of my being ill.  Fuckin’ hypocrit.

Actually, just in case you have a bone of decency left in your body, I’m handling it just fine.  It hardly bothers me at all.  I had to be forced to the doctor’s, because I didn’t want to be a bother.  I;m not a punk-assed pussy con.

JMJ  

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Huffington Post is actually a very widely read and respected website. We’re not talking about Joe Blow’s blog that get’s read regularly by three people. Probably hundreds of thousands of people per day stop by and read HufPo. The comments are outrageous. Pointing out their outrageousness doesn’t constitute hypocrisy. Defending them as been ‘nobodies’ is hypocrisy. I’ve never defended Rush or any of the others from deserved criticism. Again, no hypocrisy.

I’m trying to figure out why, if you’re handling your illness so well, you can’t even follow my simple arguments (like from the other day where you evince no clue as to what I was arguing about in the stem cell research discussion) or simply admit that the comments that I linked to above are outrageous rather than accusing me of hypocrisy for pointing to them in the first place. If not your illness then what’s left? Obtuseness, deliberate or otherwise. I preferred to suppose that it was your illness interfering with your thought process and making you cranky enough to miscomprehend and totally misrepresent my arguments, call me names etc.

Look, if it’s just that you are intellectually the equivalent of Sandy or 4Truth, I’ll simply ignore you in the future.

By Jersey McJones on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Craig, the people I brought up have audiences in the millions, and Bolton is at the UN representing our nation.  The man you gave us is a popular satirist, if you happen to be educated and get the joke.

Your point about SCR was disingenuous at best.  You were playing a semantic game to make a phony point.

And then you accuse ME of “obtuseness,” and compare me to idiots, the ultimate bait ‘n switch relative to this convo.

Nice try, Craig.  Better luck next time.

JMJ

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 24, 2006 | Reply

Trust me, Jersey, there won’t be a next time. You’ve joined Sandy in the list of people who no don’t warrant serious consideration. If you consider your comments on the stem cell debate to be honest, serious, rational and worthy of consideration then you really have gone around the bend and you’re not worth my time. If you consider my comments there to be no more than word games, you haven’t the intelligence to follow an argument and there’s no point enlightening you so I won’t bother trying.

Have a nice life, I hope you get over your pneumonia soon but I don’t see any point in taking any more of your abuse.

Toodles. 

By Jersey McJones on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Ouch!

Craig, there’s abuse and there’s use.

You have use.  If you think I have none, than I feel bad for you more than I.

Take it easy, man.  I beat up on libs too, ya’ know.  Just ask ‘em.  Think of me as an intellectual wrestler.  It makes for great mental exercise. 
JMJ

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Jersey,

There’s nothing intellectual about calling me a hypocrite, a phony Christian who lies and advances sleazy arguments that you’ve failed to comprehend. That’s not intellectual wrestling. That’s abuse.

By Dusty on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Thanks for the link to that hysterical HuffPo post Craig! I wouldn’t of seen it without your help, I love it!

By Jersey McJones on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Craig, stop it.  I call things as they are.  If it pains you so much than I’ll take it easier on you in the future.

JMJ

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

**KERPLUNK**

That was the sound of you dropping down the black-hole. Jersey, you can treat me any way you want but I no longer consider you a debater. You are a name caller who hasn’t the first clue about what I am arguing most of the time and you refuse to accept when I correct your misperceptions. Call me whatever names you want in the future. To me you don’t exist. Your comments will go unacknowledged by me. Say hello to Sandy for me.

By Dusty on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

“Say hello to Sandy for me.”–man, thats harsh Craig…kicking a man in the nads like that. I would say your both even now in the name-calling thing.

Be the bigger man and don’t send him packing w/Sandy. That’s tantamount to putting the Shrub in the middle of Baghdad without shoes, money or a map. 

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Dusty,

Jersey has spent months misunderstanding my arguments either unintentionally or deliberately, assigning to my comments meanings that were never there in the first place but only in his own mind, refusing to accept correction about the meaning of my own arguments as if I didn’t know what I meant when I wrote my comments and now he’s accusing me of bad-faith arguing. The name calling is the least of the problems that I’ve had with Jersey.

By the way, there’s the little problem of your own name-calling. I understand. The topic was particularly fraught with emotion and this hasn’t become a habit with you. It has with Jersey.

I don’t know when or where people got the idea that this was a culturally acceptable way to interact with others but I for one have had enough of it from Jersey. In the face to face world I would avoid Jersey like the plague. The only way to avoid him here is to simply leave and not come back. I’m not willing to do that but I don’t have to acknowledge his misbehavior, either. I can’t prevent others from acting badly but I don’t have to pretend that they aren’t.  

Bush wouldn’t survive in Baghdad; Jersey will be just fine. 

By the way, this is the way I was counseled to act toward 4Truth: to ignore him. Well, I’m taking people’s advice.

By the way, Dusty, I haven’t called Jersey any name but Jersey whereas I’ve taken Jersey’s abuse for months. I think I am the bigger man. I just don’t believe that I need to accept this treatment from him forever to prove that I’m the bigger man.

By Dusty on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

In all honesty, I was trying to make light of the situation Craig. I understand what your saying. As far as my comments, It was a very emotional topic for me since I had just found out about my neice..all 5 ft, 95 lbs. of her, will be on her way to Afganistan on Dec 6th as an Intel officer. They haven’t even taught her the language for the love of Pete. She is in the army, she wanted to get her masters and well..this isn’t the place for me to cry about it.

By Jersey McJones on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Dusty, thanks.

Craig, grow the fuck up.  I understand you just fine.  Make fair and reasonable arguments and you’ll get them in return.

JMJ 

By Jersey McJones on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

I told once already, since you’re so sensitive, I’ll be nicer to you.  I don’t want to hurt your feelings, just to get you make honest, fair, reasonable arguments.

JMJ

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Dusty,

Like I said, I understand. It’s got to be rough for you. I don’t blame you for crying in frustration (although how to verbalize that is a difficult thing in print) or lashing out in anger at someone who would support an unpopular war and support a draft in order to try to win it. 

By Craig R. Harmon on Nov 25, 2006 | Reply

Jersey, I have grown up and I’ve taken action. You can treat me better, worse or the same as you have. It’s of no concern to me. I honestly hold no ill will toward you. I’m sorry you’re sick. I’ve had “walking” pneumonia myself and I’m just getting over a four week viral of some sort that’s been miserable.

Here’s what I’d like. I’d like you to understand that I don’t lie. If I say something that is misinformed, it is an honest misinformation. When faced with a piece of misinformation, I would appreciate it if you would assume good faith rather than bad and, in gentlemanly fashion, correct me, not accuse me of lying.

My arguments are always honest, fair and rational when placed in the context of the point that I am arguing. Every time you have accused me of dishonest or, to use your parlance, ’sleazy’ arguments it has been consistently because you think I am arguing something that I am not, because you have read some nefarious meaning into it that is not there, and have assigned to me a motive that I do not have. I would appreciate it if, in the future, if you feel compelled to call me or my argument ’sleazy’ that you would put a sock in it, count to ten or one hundred or ten thousand or whatever number you need to count to until you get to that place where you can say something to the effect of “I don’t get that; what is it you are arguing? It sounds like you are saying ____ but that seems to me to be a faulty conclusion from an invalid premise or faulty line of reasoning.” I have no objection to having faulty premises or invalid reasoning pointed out to me in a gentlemanly fashion if my premises or reasoning are faulty. I don’t take well to being called a hypocrite and a liar or a bad-faith arguer. If I feel like I still am correct, if I feel like you have misunderstood my point, I will be more than happy to elucidate. At the end of the day, we may simply disagree. Not all arguments are resolvable because honest and reasonable people can and often do disagree with one another but assuming bad faith rather than good faith in another’s argument is no way to make or keep friends or debating partners or to resolve disputes.

You are a smart guy, Jersey, well educated and you know lots of things about lots of things. Sometimes you are even right and I am wrong. If we can carry on after this fashion, that will please me just fine. If not, well, I’ve already said what if not.